We can remove the first show in the list to add this one. A former newspaper columnist and four time bestselling . The Big Short, Moneyball, Liars Poker, these stories stand for whole industries because Michael Lewis puts just the right protagonist in the center. Kelly Corrigan:One that Ive always liked is, Things happen when you leave the house. I think I like the sense of theres something out there that you can tap into. Kelly Corrigan:Have you ever heard that potted plant theory? Like, Today could be this day, well, you know, today I met you, now were friends, and who knows whats going to happen now? Im so compassionate to that thing that happens every time you tell someone that you had cancer, which is the other person trying to figure out why its not going to happen to them as fast as possible. You know, I honestly think I only say Im sorry, and not, I was wrong. I think I might try it. He is also the father to three great characters, including Dixie, who was killed in a head on collision in May of 2021. Youre giving these beautiful phrases, and each of them feels like a kind of roadmap, and you start with one that really resonated deeply with me. 5:55. Maybe you want to borrow one of Kellys like, Its like this, but youre totally welcome to borrow my familys motto: Dont let the turkeys get you down. Its tried and true. But first, we need you to sign in to PBS using one of the services below. In other words, it could happen to you tomorrow.. Thanks so much for your refreshing, poignant, thought-provoking podcast. Its these seemingly trivial moments. Today, Im speaking with New York Times bestselling author, Kelly Corrigan. Kelly Corrigan:So, this was about all of these people calling me to say, I heard your friend died. She died this morning, and I was just sick to my stomach. I dont know, but a whole new world of possibilities exist right now that did not exist an hour and 10 minutes ago, and I think that is so cool, and real, and exciting. Kelly Corrigan:Theyre never going to not do that, and thats how theyre going to raise their kids, and that means shes still here. I think people think that if you have a diagnosis, or somethings happened to you that you should know because youre proof of it. Our guest is Kelly Corrigan, a best-selling author and host of PBS talk show Tell Me More and podcast Kelly Corrigan Wonders. Kilpy I rebelled. Onward, my dears. Thanks for sharing. Kate Bowler:You and I are super chatty people, but you make an amazing pitch for silence, and I am all for it, because everyone always had these go-to things to say with me like, You can do it, or Youre so brave, and all the things that made me feel like I was on the other side of plexiglass. (As consciously lesbian from about four-years old, believe it or not, I preferred handsome to pretty.) I hope you continue sharing your thoughts and joining in the conversation! I always asked her this when I wondered if I was handsome in any way. Just see who you can bump into out there. A huge thank you to Mahra (the song she sings is from When I Drink by The Avett Brothers), Riham, and Cheryl who shared their family mottos with us. I mean, I dont know why you went with, Everything Happens for a Reason, because Dont get crumbs on the baby, that could be the follow up. Despair defies description. Kate Bowler:Yeah. So, I grew up with this sentence with my fathers voice in my head saying, Allah Kareem, God is generous., Cheryl:Our family motto is, Dont eat a hamster. Kelly Corrigan:Its like a game changer. Inspiring and thought-provoking interviews conducted by author Kelly Corrigan. I mean, I remember thinking, when I wasnt sure, when I was in an especially tough moment of illness, every time I would look at Zachs nails I would think, Is this what wouldve happened if I hadnt been here to do this? He was saddled with depression and anxiety, which led to his trying to make himself feel better and reduce the noise in his head. This beautiful eulogy helps to paint the full picture of Ryland: a unique combination of funny, stubborn, difficult and smart. Kelly Corrigan:Where you can feel the person kind of asking around, snooping just enough, and its not for your sake. Kelly Corrigan:I was perhaps proud about it honestly, and I was reading 7 Habits of Highly Effective People at night with my big fat yellow highlighter, and I was really full of attachment to this identity that I had painted for myself. In fact Im in the middle of reading both of your books right now. Ask the dancers, and the athletes, the painters, and musicians. Kelly Corrigan:My friend Andy Lotts, who is Lizs husband, told me about it, cause hes a mom now, and so we talk mom talk. So now if a family member is being difficult or misbehaving, we have established ground rules, So and so is family and we dont sell family! We can remove the first video in the list to add this one. Kelly Corrigan:And how do we earn it? You also realized there was incredible parenting magic in the phrase, Tell me more. So, what is this witchcraft you speak of? So, maybe when life is chronic, we all need some sayings to anchor us, our very own mottos that guide us through. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Kelly Corrigan Wonders Weekly series started Oct. 4, 2020. I said, No, I just want to go back to Vietnam and do what I was doing. And Ive talked to a couple of my girlfriends whove gotten divorced, and they say the exact same thing happens to them. Okay, great. When I read that, I just kept thinking of how scared Ive been about what I call being a zombie. I was wrong not to try to know her, and I could just see it in his face that it was like, Okay, you understand. Kate Bowler:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that was my big experience of your book. On days when I feel overwhelmed, I tell myself all I need to do is maintain the faith and exit with grace. You know, like it wasnt me. Kelly Corrigan:Hey, thanks for having me. I was wrong. Kelly Corrigan:One that Ive always liked is, Things happen when you leave the house. I think I like the sense of theres something out there that you can tap into. Its the motto I live by when my opportunities are too big, and my capacity and capabilities too small. Youre giving these beautiful phrases, and each of them feels like a kind of roadmap, and you start with one that really resonated deeply with me. Surely, my friend, my lost and lovely friend, called for new words. Kelly Corrigan:Sure, my pleasure. This interview is perfection. Kelly Corrigan:I didnt die. When I read that, I just kept thinking of how scared Ive been about what I call being a zombie. Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. You could do worse than to live by that one. Kate Bowler:You are someone who has gotten mixed up in all kinds of things, and I am so glad to know you. P.S. Such is a reminder that success is the result of joined efforts and that all of us are touched by the ripples of others contributions. Today is the right day to Love, Believe, Do and mostly Live. Then the ocean with its waves so vast, impossible to touch bottom, then a maze, then a mountain, then seasons, a natural disaster. The idea that any day could be this huge day, I dont know, that really gets me out of bed, you know? Kate Bowler:Getting back to life has been really tricky. Kate Bowler:Yeah. I absolutely love that phrase. Your mantra is fantastic and is sounds like it has served you well through the years! She has been called the voice of her generation and the poet laureate of the ordinary, and she is the most perfect person to talk to to kick us off because her lovely new book is called Tell Me More, and Tell me more is one of those phrases she uses, phrases that she writes about that help guide her through relationships, and parenting, and grief. I mean, people are getting colon cancer at your age all the time. Thats like total vanity but, especially with the kids, I definitely think, Edward and I both think, If you let us run this out for you, well get it done like one, two, three, and thats so humiliating, and degrading, and just the opposite of self-esteem building, which is sort of like the ground we walk on as adults. Team Everything Happens. She's a daughter who still mourns the loss of her dad, a mom to her amazing daughters, a wife to her fantastic husband, a sister, a good friend, and a woman trying her best to leave this world a better and a brighter one for future generations. Kelly Corrigan:And I should not lose my mind over a shirt I bought on final sale section that didnt fit even though I tried to pull it over myself, and then it got stuck on me, and I had to cut it off with scissors. Weeks later, the missing hamster crawled out from under the stove. Kerri, This is one of the most moving and important conversations weve ever shared and we thank PBS for supporting this work as well as the Lafayette Library and Learning Center for hosting the shoot. Please note that this episode references addiction and suicide. If you love the episode, please share and review. Kate Bowler:You are someone who has gotten mixed up in all kinds of things, and I am so glad to know you. Kelly Corrigan:Like, Oh, well we still have sex, so were definitely not going to get a divorce, or you know, Oh my husband doesnt travel, so then were definitely not gonna get a divorce, or you know, I never smoked cigarettes, so Im definitely not going to get breast cancer. Can we trust our gut? The book is full of warm and witty blessings found within the struggles of our shared humanity, from theNew York Timesbestselling authors ofGood Enough. Kelly Corrigan:Theres a thing Im aware of about eye contact between spouses, and you either make it, or you dont, and once youre aware that thats deeply meaningful, and that it has this kind of almost immeasurable, physiological effect on the other person, then you make an effort to look them in the eye, and that seems like such a small thing, but its actually definitional in terms of your relationship, in terms of whether its a good day, or a bad day, or a good interaction, or a bad interaction. Kelly Corrigan:Dont get crumbs on the baby. Theres a title. Corrigan and her guests dig into such questions as "Is knowing more always . Kilpy The reach of language can be laughable.. Kelly Corrigan Full Transcript - Kate Bowler Everything Happens with Kate Bowler Kelly Corrigan: Tell Me More 30 00:00:00 30 Read more about this episode, and get show notes, here. I really appreciate it. It doesnt end, and also you cant live there. It just came out whole, and of course, to me its the most important and moving chapter in the book for sure. Kelly Corrigan:Thanks. Thanks For Being Here Remembering Ryland. Team Everything Happens, Kate, I love that youre human- that you cry as easily as I do and that you say youre not normal as often as I do (me about myself of course!). Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Kelly Corrigan:Hey, thanks for having me. Even the words left unsaid. Kelly Corrigan:Hearts dont idle. Kelly Corrigan:You know, that I had lost his favor for a moment, and I was just so ashamed. You cant live in that. Im so sorry youre not going to like any of my answers. Kate Bowler:Today, I get a chance to talk to Kelly about some of her very best phrases. You dont have to bring it all. You know, like it wasnt me. It kind of reminded me though, when I was little, my family used to have these mottos, but the mottos were stuff like, Dont get crumbs on the baby, or Be nice to mom. Best, In other words, it could happen to you tomorrow.. You say something thats so weird cause I say it all the time, so when I read it I thought, Did you reach inside my brain? You adopted the phrase, Onward as a bit of a motto. Thats where its at. Kelly Corrigan:And so I didnt do it. Warmly, Kate Bowler:Well I think part of it, and this gets to another phrase that you write about which is I dont know, but you and I, it sounds like, have given up on certainties as a way to cope with that, both having been through cancer, and also I think both realizing that people really dont like it when you say, I dont know.. Weeks later, the missing hamster crawled out from under the stove. Like the other day when I was being wheeled into a procedure, the nurse looked at my chart, and then casually said, Colon cancer. I mean, I dont know why you went with, Everything Happens for a Reason, because Dont get crumbs on the baby, that could be the follow up. So, I just really went bananas, because on top of the shirt problem, I went downstairs to clean the kitchen, and I found everybodys bowls, and spoons, and cups, and I had that reaction that so many women have, which is, Well I guess Im the least busy. Kate Bowler:Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Kelly Corrigan:And then she died, and my dad called, and my dad had nothing but positive things to say to me my entire life, and he said, You should have gone to see your grandmother more. So, I think things happen when you leave the house. Kelly Corrigan:I sat at my dining room table, which is place I never write, and I thought, Oh my God, of course I know exactly what this is. Sometimes, were just lacking a bit of language. Thanks for sharing your personal motto. Our family motto is, We dont sell family. When our dog was a puppy and being housebroken, he kept sneaking around piddling in the corners of rooms. Just get in the mix, get in the line of fire. Minds dont rest. This forgetting, this slide into smallness, this irritability in shame, this disorienting grief Its like this. Ill definitely have to write this one down and bring it out on a particularly overwhelming day! Kate Bowler:My life doesnt exactly fit into neat categories anymore. I mean, that means shes with them. One of the hardest things Ive been wrestling with is not having any clear language for this weird place between sick and healthy, weak and strong. The Honor and Weight of of Being a Role Model. Im so sorry youre not going to like any of my answers. Being a runner, this has always been meaningful for me. Your email address will not be published. Youre going to slide around, you know, youre going to deserve your life a little more some days than others. You start with, Its like this.. Kate Bowler:Theres this other phrase, I was wrong, that has real power, and you learned that in a really intense way when your grandma died. Sometimes, were just lacking a bit of language. Kelly Corrigan:My instinct is to fix, cause I feel Im almost sure I can. Kelly kicks off a new series on BELIEF, delving into topics like the meaning of life, finding purpose, why faith, service and gratitude matter, and more with Dr. MIchael Murray, former Philosophy Professor and current President & CEO of the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations . Its a sin, its hell. Thank you for helping me think more deeply about my words; not just the words I speak to others but the words I speak to myself. Her memoirs include " The Middle Place," and her first children's. So, todays conversation is about developing language to move us forward when life is well, chronic. She was really, really into manners, and as kind of an act of gratitude, not in an uptight, British way, but as a Look at us eating a meal together, like, Nobody should eat before the last person gets down. Society & Culture English Theres meatless Mondays, and theres a kombucha bar, and theres nap pods. If you haven't heard of Father Greg Boyle, let us introduce you: a Jesuit priest who has a touch of Santa Claus in his affect, Greg Boyle has collaborated with thousands of former gang members to build thriving businesses and communities of radical acceptance in East LA. Im sorry I didnt go see your mom. Thats not the same as saying I was wrong not to try to know her. I dont know. At a time when so much feels unex Kate Bowler:Words matter. Plus, we learn how the same technique can actually reduce racism and prejudice. Kelly Corrigan Wonders on Apple Podcasts 296 episodes Welcome to Kelly Corrigan Wonders, a place for people who like to laugh while they think and find it useful to look closely at ourselves and our weird ways in the hopes that knowing more and feeling more will help us do more and be better. So, its funny that that phrase really begat the whole book in a way, because I had been feeling this shame about not really earning my days here, and then Ed and I were at dinner, and we were talking about the difference between saying Im sorry, and saying I was wrong, and I was saying, God, its so much more powerful though in the humility in saying I was wrong.. To learn more about Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies Ive Loved) by Kate Bowler, click here. You are everywhere they are., Kelly Corrigan:I really believe that, even though Im skeptical, and Im mad at people who say, Her spirits still here, and stuff. I mean so far, knock on wood, Im getting to see my kids be much, much older than she got to see her kids be. Kate Bowler:Yeah, I believe you. Now, eleven years post-cancer, Im still learning to show up and be of use in my life, my marriage, my family and my work for the display of His splendor. Each episode ends with Kellys shortlist of takeaways, appropriate for refrigerator doors, bulletin boards and notes to your children. Kelly Corrigan:But you know, if Im jumping in with my fancy solution two and a half minutes in, I just cut you off, and then we leave each other, and I have this little high like, Ah, I just really helped her, and she walks away thinking, She didnt hear anything I said. Whos going to do this? Kelly has also agreed to be my friend as part of her contractual commitment to this podcast. So, I was wondering, would you mind reading that beautiful passage you wrote about after Liz died? Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Like, Im just an ordinary person, and I make all the mistakes that everybody else makes and maybe even 10% more, and then there she was, and what she would have done for the life that I was kind of rushing through, multitasking my way through day, after day, and you know, sort of feeling snappish, and then catching myself, and feeling like I should be different. Kelly Corrigan:So, my dad died in February, and then my friend Liz, whos the mother of three kids, 8, 10, and 12 at the time, died that December. As many of our listeners know, Kelly has a dear cousin, Kathy, who turns up, one way or another, in all of Kelly's books. Together, Kate and Kelly explore the phrases we cling to in order to find deeper connection and meaning during difficult times. Corrigan, a New York Times bestselling author, gives her Brief But Spectacular take on the power of words. Ask anyone who has participated in a moment of silence. Kate Bowler:Those ordinary consonants and vowels that, when strung together, offer meaning and points of entry for others. Kelly Corrigan:And it wasnt my turn for his attention. I didnt engage with her. Kate, Kelly Corrigan:She cant wear half her clothes because she cant zip them by herself. She totally doesnt get it. Were jumping in way too soon and talking way too much. You might actually give somebody a chance to discover whats really bothering them, and in that discovery they might find their own solution, but the fact is that if you can bite your stupid tongue, and get over yourself, and just keep eliciting their whole story, then the next thing you know, their mood is changing, and theyre feeling more solution-oriented, and then they get the buzz of solving the problem. Kate Bowler:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe Wills curious phrase, Its like this, applies here too. Hosted by four-time New York Times bestselling author Kelly Corrigan, the show features insightful conversations with notable guests, reflecting on their lives and the impact they can have on their worlds. Both Kate and Kelly are remarkable women and in tandem they make for great listening. Kate Bowler:Yeah. You cant only experience deep gratitude at the toenails that you seriously wish someone else would have cut, because seriously, whos doing this around here? And then right on the heels of that, I think, What would Liz do for this?. Just do your best. Kate Bowler:I do think people offer certainties when they think that youre proof of something that scares them, and they cant just live in the uncertainty of not knowing for a minute. Kelly Corrigan:I didnt die. She reflects on her love and loss through ordinary moments and everyday sayings. Kate is a young mother, writer and professor who, at age 35, was suddenly diagnosed with Stage IV cancer. So, Dont eat a hamster is our version of Dont jump to conclusions.. Absolutely enjoy these, the wisdom, the calm, the gentle reminder of our true reality and the essentiality of the connections we make and need to survive and help each other. And you know, it was so weird, but dying was the easier part of it. Thats where relationship lives is in these tiny moments, and whether you are cognizant of that and tuned into that channel all the time, or not, that is the story of a relationship. I mean, Im totally coming to see you. They hate it. It just ends the tension because what youre saying is, I see it how you see it, and I agree with you. Im so thankful I could be a fly on the wall and listen in on your conversation. You are everywhere they are., Kelly Corrigan:I really believe that, even though Im skeptical, and Im mad at people who say, Her spirits still here, and stuff. I mean, people are getting colon cancer at your age all the time. Its not in my family. Kelly and Kate Bowler dive into that phrase so often offered up to explain bad stuff: "everything happens for a reason." Kate is a divinity professor at Duke University and the bestselling author of three books. Kelly Corrigan:So, my dad died in February, and then my friend Liz, whos the mother of three kids, 8, 10, and 12 at the time, died that December. I need to hear what your motto is. Shed do anything. Onwards, but you use it so beautifully when youre talking about Lizs family and how they are now. You understand what you did wrong., Kelly Corrigan:So to me, that felt very different than saying, Im sorry. I was also living only maybe 10 miles from my very old grandma who lived alone, and I kept kind of meaning to go visit her, but its a lot easier to show up at work every day at the United Way, and get kind of righteous about all the people who work for money versus the rest of us who are working for the greater good, than it is to go to your grandmas smelly, weird apartment, and have weird conversations with an 88-year old, you know? I think earn is such a good word, because youre talking about such a complicated math. Kelly Corrigan:She cant wear half her clothes because she cant zip them by herself. Im coming. Kate Bowler:Yeah, the indignity. Kelly reads everything from eulogies to retirement speeches and on February 19th, she . It doesnt end, and also you cant live there. Kelly Corrigan:And Im getting to walk with them way longer on their road, and I felt this sense that I could never possibly deserve that, that Im not that great a person, or a mom. Over 50 & Flourishing with Dominique Sachse. Kelly Corrigan:But you know, if Im jumping in with my fancy solution two and a half minutes in, I just cut you off, and then we leave each other, and I have this little high like, Ah, I just really helped her, and she walks away thinking, She didnt hear anything I said. You know, I honestly think I only say Im sorry, and not, I was wrong. I think I might try it. I didnt make her final days one bit better, and I lived there for two years. The ambiguity is quite isolating. Im not sure where the bar is set at in normalcy though. Nobody who is between identities they can tolerate does, it seems to me something Ive actively struggled with and expect to go hand to hand with again, whether tomorrow or the day after. You cant only experience deep gratitude at the toenails that you seriously wish someone else would have cut, because seriously, whos doing this around here? And she said, Kelly, Im going to try to do the Uber to this wedding, and I was wondering if you can request a woman, and I said, No you cant, but you can trust it. RELATED LINKS Try this episode's happiness practice: 36 Questions for Increasing Closeness Read Kelly Corrigan's new book, Tell Me More Transcript Im a questioning Christian (if there is such a thing) since I doubt youd ever see the Son of God appear in any of the beautiful Catholic or mega churches that apparently represent Him. Our family motto: It isnt help unless someone asks for it. I was wrong not to go visit her. Kelly Corrigan:And so I didnt do it. You wrote about the end of words. Mahra:Ive been singing these lines from a song by the Avett Brothers to my kids for years, and it goes like this. Series 47: For the Love of Untraditional Traditions Series 46: For the Love of Feeding Your People Series 45: For the Love of Dating, Sex, and Relationships Series 44: Letters from MeCamp 2022 Series 43: For the Love of Conversations Series 42: For the Love of Our Favorite Pastimes Series 41: For the Love of Faith Shakers Its completely random. Kelly Corrigan:Theyre never going to not do that, and thats how theyre going to raise their kids, and that means shes still here. To learn more about Tell Me More: Stories about the 12 Things Im Learning to Say, click here. So, I kind of wondered if there was a motto youd pick for you for right now, what would it be? So, I think things happen when you leave the house. What do we do when the labels we're given aren't necessarily the ones we choose for ourselves? Dalai Lama XIV, Cheryl, Kate Bowler: I'm Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. So, I grew up with this sentence with my fathers voice in my head saying, Allah Kareem, God is generous., Cheryl:Our family motto is, Dont eat a hamster. Duration: 3:0 Transcript HARI SREENIVASAN: Now to another in our Brief But Spectacular. Okay, but Im just telling you those kids are waking up every day without her, and theyre going to keep being without her forever. I think thats cause we were always sort of fighting nearby. Download. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Kelly Corrigan:Thats not a headline anybody wants to read. We should hold hands for a moment, as a way of marking the glory of a family dinner, and they do that. For a special listener who was just diagnosed, here are some thoughts on the stages of recovery that I encourage you to share with every last person you know who is in treatment for anything. When bestselling author Kelly Corrigan experienced the death of her dad and dear friend back-to-back, she couldnt shake the feeling that she wasnt living as gratefully as she wanted to. Kelly Corrigan:Thats not a headline anybody wants to read. Im like, Yeah, right. She has a beloved podcast called Everything Happens. Maya Shankar and Kelly Corrigan in Lafayette, CA. For what Ive just seen in the last six months, I should be different. She plans to give it to her daughter, who graduates from high school in June.. Its all this cumulative effect of a thousand minuscule moments. Adjust the colors to reduce glare and give your eyes a break. Best, Minds dont rest. Kelly Corrigan:Have you ever heard that potted plant theory? So, God is generous was my dads way of promising us a better future. Kate Bowler:I do think people offer certainties when they think that youre proof of something that scares them, and they cant just live in the uncertainty of not knowing for a minute. Ive read Tell Me More twice already. Kelly Corrigan:Like, almost every time Im sure that if you just let me take over, I can make this problem go away. Kindly, Its a very learned thing that I have to insert the words into my mouth, and push them out deliberately, because my instinct is to solve. I loved this episode! Im grateful for your wisdom in the messy, the uncertain and the in-between. Jewel and Kelly Corrigan have a conversation in NYC. Kelly Corrigan is a New York Times bestselling author whose first children's book, Hello World, is available now. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Then the ocean with its waves so vast, impossible to touch bottom, then a maze, then a mountain, then seasons, a natural disaster. It was because I had been selfish, and my dad caught me. More lessons learned. Kelly Corrigan:I never came up with any combination that came close to the feeling. But the fact is if I said, Tell me more, go on, what else, youd say the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, and it would be like the thing behind the thing, behind the thing is where really the pain is, and if I had waited way longer, I wouldve been able to say, Oh, I understand.. Ask anyone who has participated in a moment of silence. Kareem means generous. By creating an account, you acknowledge that PBS may share your information with our member stations and our respective service providers, and that you have read and understand the Privacy Policy and Terms of Use. Kelly Corrigan:My instinct is to fix, cause I feel Im almost sure I can. Kate Bowler:Oh friend. Shes not going to their wedding, shes not going to pick out wedding dresses with them. We are so glad that you joined us for this conversation and found it enjoyable. Suddenly, just showing up was in question. She totally doesnt get it. Were jumping in way too soon and talking way too much. Kelly Corrigan:Ah, it was so terrible. Forever? Im hearing all the music, Im totally tuned in to the right channel, and then just like that, I slip into those mundane irritants., Kelly Corrigan:And then I catch myself, and then I feel this sense of shame, and he said, Its like this.

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